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Poster: jessandra Date: Dec 23, 2009 12:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why does everyone hate Brent?

Well the upstream and commercial audience they found - was the reason I stopped touring after 87!

I found the scene became ugly and the east coast shows were filled with young and aggresive drunks. Kids just going to shows to test out drugs and party without a clue or any respect for the music.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 23, 2009 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the "parking lot"???

That's something I babbled on about a number of times here, but for me, it came even earlier...I noticed a significant downturn in the crowd with the move from Winterland to Oakland (hmmm, only 15 mi to the East I suppose!), and by 82 was not at all into the "scene".

What I find interesting is that many folks here have commented on the "parking lot scene" as a place of good times, burritos, cheese samwiches, and other comical items and personalities...I think I missed it entirely. In SF, there was NO parking lot since you parked somewhere more or less on your own, and went to the show...peeps met in line, and such, but until shows moved to Oak, there wasn't a recognized single Lot to work with. So, I guess my question is, was it the move to larger venues, and day time gigs, that allowed for the parking lot scene to develop? And was it strictly a mid 80s thru 95 phenomenon? Did it start earlier on the East Coast at sites with large, dedicated pk lots at the venue?

Or was I just being cheap and parking on side streets so that I missed the scene somewhere in SF?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Dec 23, 2009 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

A good example would be Buckeye Lake Music Center aka Legend Valley, You could wedge 75-80K in the venue,however at the last show in 94 law enforcement estimated the attendence at 450,000, thats alot of people without a ticket,

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Poster: barongsong Date: Dec 23, 2009 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

That's an interesting question WT. When did the parking lot scene start I wonder. While there were certainly places in the later era that there was no huge central parking area {Hartford and Worcester come to mind} there was still the vending scene and Shakedown ST. The only places that didn't have much or any real parking lot scene in the later years was in the big cities like at MSG, or Rosmont in Chicago, or even Boston Garden where there wasn't much of a parking lot scene either. That, as you say, it wasn't really present at all in the 70's, makes me curious as to when it actually started.

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Dec 23, 2009 2:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

I recall reading in I think it was McNally's book that the lot scene started at one of the bay area venues. I think it was during a New years run in '81 or '82. There was a park?? next to the venue where they allowed people to camp.
From these humble beginnings, the entire lot scene sprung up... All I know for sure was that by the time I got on the bus in '84, the lot scene was in full swing. Definitely lots of fun times in those days. especially in summer when the weather was nice!! The few shows I saw in the '90s when I had a "real" job and would just make it the venue around show time were just never the same.. The parking lot scene just made seeing the shows all that much better IMHO!

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Poster: barongsong Date: Dec 23, 2009 4:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

Hey thanks, somehow I had the misconception that there had been some sort of Parking lot scene since the 70's.

I guess in the 70's it was just at places like Veneta that you could camp at, that any sort of communal scene occurred.

Yea saw the demise of the parking lot in the late 80's and after all the busts and hassles on 89 spring tour it was never really the same.

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Poster: skies Date: Dec 24, 2009 4:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

Interesting that you didn't really got into the parkinglots scenes at dead shows , W.Tell ! For sure for me , the parkinglots were a main attraction to give us time to meet people before and after the shows , eat, buy tyedyes ,toke and dose and meet all sorts of curious witty heads saying or wanting all sorts of things . No doubt the parkinlots , the shows ,and deadheads were all necessary ingredients to the whole scene for me !

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 24, 2009 6:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

Just to echo Finster's post somewhat, I have read that the parking lot/camping/open market scene evolved out of the NYE runs at the Oakland Auditorium beginning somewhere around '79-'80. Can't vouch for it since I wasn't there; maybe someone who was can give more insight.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 24, 2009 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

Thanks one and all for the replies...I think it's clear then that (duh) the PLot Scene req'd a parking lot, and that until the shows were regularly at a venue (sports arenas and such) with designated lots, and large numbers of folks attending, there just wasn't a scene to participate in...

I do know that the night time shows at Oakland must have only had a very small PLot scene developing at the shows I attended in the late 70s, since we had to walk through it to get in, and I defn don't recall a big collection of vendors and the like...suppose it was bigger at shows that were in the afternoon? Or was that not the case? Dunno...

Defn didn't seem to be a PLot Scene assoc with Winterland shows however, as there wasn't a single large lot for it to "happen" in...

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Poster: jessandra Date: Dec 23, 2009 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

I guess I mainly remember the parking lot scene out east at the larger venues during the mid-eighties when we were still allowed to sell whatever we wanted. I sold bumper stickers in 85 and 86. In or after 1987 we weren't allowed to sell anything anymore which had a logo that even vaguely resembled a 'now licenced' GD graphic. Thus the casual and relaxed buying and selling turned into 'sell and run' before security caught you and confiscated your shirts or stickers. The food scene changed too and there was more beer being sold out east than good food. I think alot of the people selling food just got frustrated with certain parking lot conditions and didn't bother anymore.

85-87 - Redrocks, with the campground was the ultimate but places like Manor Downs, or the amphitheatre in KC or Oklahoma city had huge fields for parking where we could comfortably hang out all day. Ventura if you liked the dirt, Cal Expo, Laguna Seca etc.

New Years 84/85 at the SF Civic had a vending area in front of the City Hall (without parking of course) but lovely Miss Feinstein stopped that at future shows.

And then the HJK in Oakland where the vending was on the lawn and not in the parking lot. Oh and there was always the Burrito truck there from Berkeley and they were sooo good!

Speaking of which - it's time for dinner ;-)

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 24, 2009 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When and Where was the 'parking lot'???

I definitely recall the same uproar over shirts in and around 1987. On the flip side, though, I started noticing a more "professional" variety of shirt becoming available in the lots starting in late '85 or '86 (might have been before then but that's the first time I remember noticing). These shirts weren't the usual homey numbers being churned out by hippies looking to finance their following of the band- it was obvious they were coming from people whose sole purpose in being there was to sell shirts and turn a buck off the Dead. This obviously became a much more lucrative enterprise starting in '87. I think the honest-to-goodness heads who were just trying to pay for gas, tickets, etc, just wound up getting caught in the middle.